"The memories of the stories of the people who make history" came from a conversation between Graça Alves and Claudia Faria, both researchers at the Center for the Study of the History of the Atlantic (CSHA) about the gaps in the records of the private life, the vision of anonymous people on certain times of these landmark events in the history of the island and its very existence. A project of recollection that gives prominence to the common citizen and their direct or indirect role in the development of Madeira and that brings to the surface, the other side of the story, the more human side of affections.
How did the idea of the memories of the stories of the people who make history come up?
Claudia Faria: The project arose out of my master's thesis on literature and culture, which leaned on the Phelps family. I found a diary of one of the daughters of this merchant and decided to do a PhD about that registry. I had to read about privately writting , which is a new type of documentation that is not widely used in historical research itself, because usually we research in official documents. In this case, it was a diary that was kept in the drawer of a house and soon I realized that this area, this new way of looking at the studies of social sciences and humanities was growing. Official sources are important, they are doing a good job, but we have to try the other side of the history and how we have access to that other side? Through the people themselves, of what they wrote, of what they saved about certain events that marked them, in their own life, who they forthseen such events, what they felt when shared it with others and that one could extract from these moments. I began to have contact with this type of information and particularly with an association called IABA Europe (International Auto / biography Association), founded by Philippe Lejeune, dedicated to the study of the self, the"life writing", that is, the writing of life. And then shared these events with Professor Alberto Vieira, who is the director of (CSHA), who thought the center could contribute further, because until now had only been studied the history of sugar and wine, especially on the island of Madeira and it was from that sharing ideas is that the project began.
And how is that you extrapolated from the story of a family to the reports of anonymous people, immigrants, merchants, fishermen, soldiers, etc.. How did this project took shape?
Graça Alves: The idea is to see the other side of the history, since it was the diary of a young girl who came by as a traveler. If so you could have a different view on the island, on the events of the world, why not look at people who are still alive and some of those who witnessed key events? Why not go in search of their stories? See how the memory stored and safeguarded, and how these events were seen. The project that we presented to CSHA and has the endorsement of Professor Alberto Vieira ends up being, on this other side. From the diary that Claudia was studying, the Phelps girl who wrote everything that happened to her during her stay on the island, we start with the idea that there are people who write or record everything that happens to them, that somehow has opinions, other views on the world.
How do you discover these families? And ollecting this personal estate?
CF: What exist of the official documentation clearly speaks of the most important personalities, we are talking about governors, doctors, judges, etc.. People who were linked to local, regional power and we did not want that part of the hisotry, because it's easier, or already done, or possibly it's up to others to do. We wanted the anonymous, the common people, the neighbor who witnessed the attack from Germany to Funchal, for example. People who were related, or had witnessed many events surrounding the island. Then we thought in another area of intervention that is emigration, one must look in another way to those who left it and took Madeira island with them. Of the people who lived in the Portuguese colonies and locals who were at war overseas, those are life experiences that we would like to collect. Some returned, some not, but all have many stories to tell.
How do you automate all this gathering?
GA: The project is still in the very beginning, it was publicly announced in November at the colloquium of mobilities, in the Foundation John Dos Passos. So we are at the beginning. We are in the phase word-of-mouth, people will speak about the project, we have a "newsletter" that is in the beginning and there are people who come to us, or someone ask us to present the project to an audience . Our work has been collecting only what people bring us. This is not a project that even if we had seven lives we could finish it. We are starting slowly, with the clear picture of our limits, we also feed a blog with the memories of the people, little stories that somehow can call other stories. We were recording interviews and guard them and scan documents and images. We have no conclusions, nor do we claim to get them out, because this is a job that is not only ours, is something that can also be done in terms of cross disciplinary or multidisciplinary, because it speaks of people's lives, their movements, their psychological profile, the literature that comes from writing, from the historical, economic and sociological events. This is a project that we are starting and others will continue.
CF: The senior university was a springboard for the project. They are our students and obviously they had documents and stories to tell, or know someone with an interesting route. Then through from mouth to mouth people come to us, or we went to meet them. The first step is to record the interview to see what history they have to tell. It is a loose talk, without any model or topology. We monitored people's memories and then there are people who provide us with documentation, such as, letters or photos, we ask to scan then and returned the original to its owner. We are currently creating files with this material. Neither me nor Grace will do the research work, we are collecting, looking. Eventually it will help developing a study.
GA: In a small portion ...
CF: Yes, imagine someone in the U.S. is developing a paper on the Portuguese wars overseas and is looking for witnesses who went through this experience, that person will obviously contact the center and we can provide that information, ie, the person can query this data to make his study. It is this involvement that we want to create and also to be consulted by the locals.
The records may also be consulted privately in search of stories from their relatives or ancestors, since this is a land of immigrants.
CF: Yes, although the regional archive has a very interesting work in this area. People look for their families by records of baptism or marriage, or death.
What is the importance of your blog on this collection of memories?
GA: The blog has two main functions, one of which is always dissemination because we tell the stories of people, although small extracts, Bit of stories not seem much, but they serve to call attention to the work. Moreover, the blog serves as a way to catapult the memories we are telling, because things seem nothing, but they are the only memories that people have, are there to serve as an example for others to go through. What we think of is that the story of the island of Madeira, from anywhere, cannot be done only by those who made it happen. There is the other hand, ordinary people like us, who have worked to make this land what it is and what we are showing on the blog. It is serving as decoys to draw others. And they become actors, actors in the history of the island.
I realize by your presentation that basically that most of these memories are from Funchal, but you do not want only the stories of capital.
CF: No way. The center is on the history of the Atlantic and we have a purpose in this house, is to mirror this reality, not only of Madeira, or insular. It is much beyond that. Maybe at this stage is more Funchal, because we are based here, the senior college is working here, many people live in the city, but for example, one of the stories we shared of Mr. Manuel is the Ponta do Pargo. This shows that we are going beyond that in search of capital.
Of all the stories I have collected for sure there is a more striking, more cartoonish, that you like to recount.
GA: All have their stories of what important to us, because somehow these stories have made us grow as people. And often appear out of nowhere. Quickly, one of the stories appeared at the table of my dining room, an elderly couple and their children who are my friends come for tea to see my Christmas crib and in conversation I asked if they knew someone who had gone to overseas and the father told me he had been there. It was the story of a soldier, who had a special meaning for me, first because come out of nowhere, did not even know he had gone to war and then had another delightful aspect is that certain moments of this journey he told neither his children knew and they already had more than 40 years of age. And suddenly he felt relieved because he shared a story that was kept there because he did indeed suffer. It was perhaps the one that gave me most pleasure to hear. I had to listen to it alone, although it is a joint effort, just could not miss this opportunity. It is the story of my heart. But there are others. I find it delightful that a child, aged 12, alone in a boat go towards South Africa, leaving the family behind the dock, the father and the teacher, except his mother (it is indeed a common trait of all these stories, they will not see them go). Others make us laugh, once again, in the case of Mr. Manuel who traveled alone in a vessel where only was spoken English and therefore he was aware of what the next-door table order and said something like "fish" and he did not know what that word meant, tbut thanks to it he eat fish every day on the boat, because he did not know any other one. There are those aspects more cartoonish, but there is also another side to this very serious and disturb us a bit, because people when are telling us their story, suddenly they shut up and cry and we do not know if this recall is good or bad for them. We are learning to manage the emotions that are being triggered because of the stiring in things that were saved.
CF: For me, that touched me most was the story of Mr. Almano Gomes, his adventures through the world of music in Funchal. The much talk of a theater show organized by the Maritime club and while seeing the photos he told me he sang one of the tunes with a girl named Odette Gama and suddenly I find out that this girl was my godmother, Almano revive his memories and I mentally revisit my godmother's house, where everyone was on the music, which there was always singing and social gathering. In exchange, I stopped being a teacher, I became the goddaughter of Odette with whom he spent good times and there was created a very strong bond to the point of discovering that my mother made a record. I'm looking for the memory of others and I end up discovering mine. I think this is great validitation of this project, we are not alone and all this has to do with us.
Why do people feel this need to tell you these stories now? There is already a certain distance of these emotional moments, particularly those painful memories.
GA: Some yes, in case of war overseas that was a very striking time. There are other people, who despite having torn letters, photographs that made them suffer , now they can tell these stories, because there is a distance from these facts. And also because suddenly, in today's world, they found two people who are willing to hear them. We are talking about people over 60 and their children often do not have time to listen. We are someone who gives them attention and prove that they were very important people who played a major role in the history of the island and it makes them feel it was worth it. It is a good thing and they become protagonist. Everyone likes at some point in their life to be the main actor.
http://memoriadasgentes.blogspot.pt/2013_02_01_archive.html
http://www.madeira-edu.pt/ceha/tabid/1271/Default.aspx
http://www.iaba-europe.eu/
Os registos também poderão ser consultados por privados em busca das histórias dos seus familiares, ou antepassados, já que esta é uma terra de emigrantes.
CF: Sim, embora o arquivo regional tem um trabalho muito interessante nessa área. As pessoas vão a procura dos seus familiares, através de registos de baptismo ou de casamento, ou de óbito.
Qual é a importância do blog nesta vossa recolha de memórias?
GA: O blog tem duas grandes funções, uma que é de divulgação porque contámos sempre as histórias das pessoas, embora sejam pequenos extractos, historiazinhas que não parecem muito, mas que servem para chamar à atenção do trabalho. Por outro lado, o blog funciona como uma forma de catapultar as memórias que nos são contadas, porque parecem coisas de nada, mas são as únicas recordações que as pessoas têm, estão lá a servir como exemplo, que vá passando para outros. O que temos de pensar é que a história da ilha, da Madeira, de qualquer sítio, não pode ser feita apenas daqueles que a fizeram acontecer. Tem o outro lado, das pessoas comuns, como nós, que trabalharam para fazer desta terra o que é e que é que estamos a mostrar no blog. Vai servindo como chamariz para chamar outros. E tornar-nos protagonistas, actores da história da ilha.
Apercebei-me pela vossa apresentação que as memórias provêm basicamente do Funchal, mas vocês não pretendem apenas as histórias da capital.
CF: De maneira nenhuma. O centro é sobre a história do Atlântico e se temos um propósito nesta casa, é espelhar essa realidade, não é só madeirense, ou insular. É muito para além disso. Se calhar nesta fase é mais o Funchal, porque estamos aqui sediados, a universidade sénior funciona aqui, muitas pessoas vivem na cidade, mas, por exemplo, uma das histórias que partilhámos, do senhor Manuel, é da Ponta do Pargo. O que demonstra que estamos indo para além dessa busca dentro da capital.
De todas as histórias que já recolheram com certeza há uma mais marcante, mais caricata, que gostam de recontar.
GA: Todas as histórias têm o seu quê de importante para nós, porque de alguma forma estas histórias têm-nos feito crescer como pessoas. E muitas vezes surgem do nada. Rapidamente, uma das histórias surgiu à mesa da minha sala de jantar, um casal idosos e os seus filhos que são meus amigos foram tomar chá para ver o presépio e em conversa perguntei se não conheciam alguém que tivesse ido até o ultramar e o pai disse-me que tinha estado lá. Era a história de um soldado, que teve um sabor especial para mim, primeiro porque surgiu do nada, nem sabia que ele tinha ido para a guerra e depois teve outro aspecto delicioso é que contou certos momentos desse percurso que nem os filhos sabiam e eles já tem mais de 40 anos. E de repente ele sentiu-se aliviado, porque partilhou uma história que estava ali guardada, porque o fazia sofrer certamente. Foi talvez a que mais prazer me deu de ouvir. Tive de ouvi-la sozinha, embora seja um trabalho conjunto, só que não podia perder essa oportunidade. É a minha história do coração. Mas, há outras. Acho delicioso que uma criança, com 12 anos, vá sozinha num barco em direcção à África do Sul, deixando para atrás a família no cais, o pai e a professora, excepto a mãe (é aliás, um traço comum de todas estas histórias, elas não vão vê-los partir). Outras fazem-nos rir, mais uma vez, no caso do senhor Manuel que viajou sozinho numa embarcação onde só se falava inglês e, por isso, esteve atento ao que o vizinho do lado pedia e como disse “fish” e ele não sabia o que queria dizer essa palavra, acabou por comer peixe todos os dias no barco, porque também não conhecia outra. Há esses aspectos mais caricatos, mas também existe um outro lado muito sério e isso atrapalhámos um pouco, porque as pessoas estão a contar-nos a sua história, de repente calam-se e choram e nós não sabemos o que havemos de fazer, porque não sabemos se esse recordar é algo bom, ou mau para elas. Estamos aprendendo a gerir as emoções que se vão desencadeando, porque mexem em coisas que estavam guardadas.
CF: Para mim a que mais me tocou foi a história do senhor Almano Gomes, as suas peripécias pelo mundo da música no Funchal. As tantas fala de um teatro revista organizado pelo Marítimo e ao ver as fotografias diz-me que cantava um dos temas com uma rapariga chamada Odete Gama e de repente descubro que essa jovem era a minha madrinha, o senhor Almano revive as suas memórias e eu revisito mentalmente a casa da minha madrinha, onde toda a gente estava ligada a música, onde se cantava e era sempre uma animação. Nesta troca, deixei de ser a professora, passei a ser a afilhada da Odete com quem ele passou bons momentos e ali se criou uma ligação muito forte até chegar ao ponto de descobrir que a minha mãe gravou um disco. Estou eu à procura da memória dos outros e acabo por descobrir a minha. Acho que essa é grande validade deste projecto, não estamos sós e tudo isto tem a ver connosco.
Porquê é que as pessoas sentem essa necessidade de vós contar essas histórias? Haverá já um certo distanciamento afectivo desses momentos, em particular, dessas memórias mais dolorosas.
GA: Alguns sim, no caso da guerra do ultramar que foi uma época muito marcante. Há outras pessoas, que apesar de terem rasgado as cartas, as fotografias que as faziam sofrer, já conseguem contar essas mesmas histórias, porque existe uma distância desses factos. E também porque de repente, no mundo de hoje, eles encontraram duas pessoas que os ouvem. Estamos a falar de pessoas com mais de 60 anos e os filhos muitas vezes não tem tempo para os ouvir. Somos alguém que lhes dá atenção e que provam que eles foram pessoas muito importantes, que tiveram um papel preponderante na história da ilha e isso fá-los sentir que valeu a pena. É algo bom e de algum protagonismo. Toda a gente gosta em algum momento da sua vida de ser o actor principal.
http://memoriadasgentes.blogspot.pt/2013_02_01_archive.html
http://www.madeira-edu.pt/ceha/tabid/1271/Default.aspx
http://www.iaba-europe.eu/
